Anyone come across one of these before?

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Anyone come across one of these before?

Postby WaterPig Master » Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:22 pm

Found this on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kpxybpfh ... re=related

Mad! Chords are possible, rotating tangents… What's going on!?

Thanks,
Barnaby
Most buskers aren't tramps... Most!
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Re: Anyone come across one of these before?

Postby Lizards » Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:30 pm

erm... quite a lot's going on, I think!
It appears to me that the strings duplicate each other so if one tangent is playing one note and you press another key, that rack of tangents engages with the next available string, to create the chord, rather than having a separate keyboard for each string - not sure, but that's what I surmised.
Um, though in that case why doesn't the higher note tangent merely get hold of both strings...? Dunno. Perhaps there's more electric cunning than appears. It evidently doesn't resonate in its own right, so perhaps the tangents are also electric contacts??????? :?

Not at all sure if I'd actually want one, though.
And just think of all the string, tangent, and cottonwool maintaining you'd have to do!
Someone asked on the Youtube site if it had a trompette - no answer that I could see. I'm not sure you'd be able to grip it enough to control, held that way.

It certainly appears to have a fair amount of electrics... wonder if it does word processing on that keyboard as well?

Amazing though, truly amazing. :)
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Re: Anyone come across one of these before?

Postby WaterPig Master » Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:39 pm

Um, though in that case why doesn't the higher note tangent merely get hold of both strings...? Dunno. Perhaps there's more electric cunning than appears. It evidently doesn't resonate in its own right, so perhaps the tangents are also electric contacts??????


I've had a look, and there's no electronic cunning going on there (Although I have considered some kind of electrical connection for MIDI playing without complex reeds, relying on the conductivity of the strings). He has removed every other tangent (he calls them 'jacks') alternately on each key, so he can play chords, but only of two notes — so, intervals. If he tries to play more than note that uses the same strings, only the highest will sound.

I think I agree, I would not want to own (much less make!) one of those — I think I will just watch people who currently own them ;) I always feel a bit exasperated when I see Valentin Clastrier's website saying that "traditional hurdy gurdies only have 6 strings, he 'developed' one with 27". Yes, and how many of those are sympathetic strings, and how much more maintenance does he need to do!

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Barnaby
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Re: Anyone come across one of these before?

Postby Lizards » Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:16 am

Cunning indeed! ... but without being as thorough as you, Barnaby and looking at each one, I presume this means he can only play certain combinations?
In which case, is it really an improvement on the double keyboard already in existence, where at least you know that whatever you put in will come out? And a lot less strings and tangents to keep in order too. And even that, having had a fairly brief go on one of those, was more than my head really wanted to get round!
(And "jacks" in my mind means the things you pluck harpsichord type strings with, so that's a quite different function).
Sometimes less is more, as they say.

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Re: Anyone come across one of these before?

Postby WaterPig Master » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:49 pm

I presume this means he can only play certain combinations?


Yes. I have not — and do not intend to — figured out exactly what combinations he can get. It strikes me as a whole lot of faf for not very much gain.

Double keyboards are quite good fun — like yourself, I've not had long enough on one to really get my head around it (something I wish to remedy with a future build…), but I'd say they are a more elegant solution than these rather weird rotary-key gurdies. I am tempted to think they must weigh an awful lot too.

That said, I would very much like to have a go on one!

Thanks,
Barnaby
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Re: Anyone come across one of these before?

Postby Lizards » Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:56 am

WaterPig Master wrote:That said, I would very much like to have a go on one!


Oh yes, of course! One should always try as many instruments as possible! :)
Purely in the cause of intellectual research, of course ;)

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Re: Anyone come across one of these before?

Postby pflipp » Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:04 pm

Hi,

Newbie here. Please read my (puny) intro if interested.

WaterPig Master wrote:I have not — and do not intend to — figured out exactly what combinations he can get. It strikes me as a whole lot of faf for not very much gain.


Au contraire :) I did the analysis, and found it to be a rather elegant, simple system.

The tangents simply alternate, as such:
Code: Select all
String 1: G A B # # F G A B
String 2:  # # C D E # # # C

Both the player's whole and half note keyboards remain unaltered, so for regular playing, nothing really changes.

But as an extra, for any note on the keyboard, the following useful notes can always be played in unison, from any octave:

- The minor 3rd (aka the major 3rd to 5th interval)
- The 4th
- The 5th
- The major 6th

These are all useful, harmonic intervals, both for playing chords as well as for playing melody parts over a single chord note.

Unfortunately, we're missing one important interval, which is the major 3rd (aka minor 6th, or minor 3rd to 5th). Alternative layouts could amend this, but not without breaking other stuff. Overall, there is none as simple and effective as this one by far.

I have no idea how this influences the balance of the strings though, as it effectively adds a drone string when no intervals are played. It would also be a charming (though relatively useless) idea to make a little two-reed / pipe organ / flute around this concept, just for giggles.
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Re: Anyone come across one of these before?

Postby WaterPig Master » Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:48 pm

Hi pflipp,

You appear to be right! That does seem a better system tha. It first appeared. I wonder how awkward it would be on a normal Gurdy? It does seem particularly well suited to the rotary tangent keyboard style instrument.

Hmmm... I'm tempted to give it a go! I may just turn the unwanted tangents around, to remove the need to unscrew them completely.

Thanks,
Barnaby
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