To start you off bashing...

Your comments, criticism are welcome here (limit your expectations though), also a place to test the BB

To start you off bashing...

Postby CeciliaKM » Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:07 am

Hello,

Following the rather serious conversation about the BB on Yahoo I meant it first as a joke, to calm down the rather unpleasant feelings with a bit of humour. Thinking on though, this is something we should have here anyway, so please use it.

However, when I say "limit your expectations" I do mean it:
1. We are, (Scott and Cecilia, the founders) are rather amateurs in the realm of computers, we need maybe much more time to suss out things than geeks or pros do.
2.We are also acting as festival organisers, and as such often priorities shift towards more acute problems need sorting out.
3. We have jobs, families and households just like anybody else, and that IS time consuming stuff!
4. Believe or not, we like to play on hurdy-gurdy, and when computer takes over that, it really upsets us.

So, we'll listen, we'll try, but be patient, bear with us and we also welcome any help from more knowledgable people. A big thanks to those who already have contributed, particularly Mark Hewitt!

All the best and go ahead bashing...:)

Cecilia
Cecilia

"si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses"
"ha hallgattál volna, bölcs maradtál volna"
"if only you had kept quiet you would have remained wise"
User avatar
CeciliaKM
Site Admin
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:51 pm

Re: To start you off bashing...

Postby Dave R » Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:03 pm

Hi Guys,

So whats the big deal, We all use computors, we all like HG's, we must like some change, because we weren't born with the ability to play an instrument, so why not come and use this place?

This type of Forum, as i'm sure you all know, allows you to pick threads and follow them, without the information/inbox overload that the Yahoo setup gives. If you filter, or use the digest function, at Yahoo, there is no real difference to comming here. Oh yes, you have to click a couple of times to get here, but even Steven Hawkin manages to do that!

Things might get missed, i hear you say. Well, encourage people to use one or other set up, buy the " see my post at ..." type of message. The more people here the better.

It also has the advantage of being a moderating influence. One has to log in to answer any post, and that gives a little time to rethink, or consider what you might say, instead of just bashing off a reply and hitting "send".

It can't be nice for Cecilia and Scott to have such a poor response to this project.

TTFN

Dave R
User avatar
Dave R
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:55 am

Re: To start you off bashing...

Postby andycarter » Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:49 pm

Not so much a 'bash' but this is best posted here I think. Re-reading, in trying to be unambiguous its turned out rather dry, which I hadn't intended :roll:

Putting on my techy project manager hat (it has a propeller on it :oops: ) I am curious as to the initial reason for putting up the bulletin board as an alternative to the Yahoo group? That's not me being shirty, rather just trying to find out what the deficiencies of the group are thought to be. If the BB is to replace the group, fixing these should be what drives the development of the BB. Yahoo has web access, email access and digest delivery (as well as file storage, polls, database...). I don't know about RSS. Dave R has listed some of the advantages of this BB system in his post. It seems much more flexible, but the downside of that is that its more complex to manage perhaps?

As well as a general resistance to change, I think having the two sites going at the same time is causing confusion among the users. "What do I post where?" "Should I double post?"

The BB could be a 'proof of concept' for a replacement for the Yahoo group, in which case users need to understand there will be 2 things going on at once for a while.

Or the BB could be a different sort of repository for things gurdy and run alongside the group. Its just a matter of deciding /publicising its function so people are clear.

Running one site is an onerous task at the best of times, running two must be almost twice as difficult, but it seems both the BB & the group allow several administrators / moderators to share the maintenance & development, so why not choose some trusted others to share the load?

Pending further discussion, to give some direction and clarity of purpose I think it would be a good idea if it were decided:-

What would we like the Yahoo group to do which it doesn't or can't?
What can the BB give us that Yahoo can't?
Can the BB replace what the group does now AND improve upon it?
If not, what are the unique roles of the group & the BB going to be?
Who is going to be involved? Who can help?
Is it worth discussing at the gurdyfest?

The appearance of the BB has generated much (not strictly gurdy related) talk, so it obviously matters to people. I do have personal preferences and opinions as well, but agreeing an approach up front should satisy most dissenters of changing system.

And yes, well done to Cecilia for getting things this far! :D

Cheers
Andy
User avatar
andycarter
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:49 am
Location: Heptonstall, Hebden Bridge, UK

Re: To start you off bashing...

Postby daveholland » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:15 pm

Well done Andy for framing the questions in a neutral way... I think there will be as many different answers as there are respondents! :-)

If the email-related frustration I expressed on the Yahoo emails came across as "bashing" then I profoundly regret it, and apologise again. I'm interested to see how this forum can provide a better experience. (My personal position is that I don't care where/how/what provides the medium for discussion, as long as I can get it or a notification delivered by email. I live by email.)

Cecilia/Paul - I have some phpBB/RSS info which I will send by email.
User avatar
daveholland
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:14 pm
Location: Cambridge, England

Re: To start you off bashing...

Postby paulsherwood6 » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:06 pm

Thanks for all the input so far ... this content-less email is mainly to test Dave's notifications are working.
User avatar
paulsherwood6
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:38 pm

Re: To start you off bashing...reply to Andy's long post

Postby CeciliaKM » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:00 am

To reply Andy's questions:

Dreaming up the BB was mainly the result of two things happening at the same time:
1. Creating a much better website, with a vision to be an all-gurdy website, with really endless development possibilities. (A one-stop website if you like.)
2. Getting discussions on the Yahoo forum about the number of emails and that people are not uniformly interested in all topics.

So, the BB seemed to be a good answer to that as opposed to the remote Yahoo group, and although we did not want to be drastic and close down the Yahoo group, we had hoped that people will shift here and eventually it will get better populated and more lively, so the progress towards closing the Yahoo forum would be natural.

Add to this that it is technically not impossible to transfer all posts and the whole database from Yahoo to the BB. It's a complicated job, but something I am winking at. That would mean that we'd have the whole lot of information in one place, better organized and for the outsider easier to search and read. For those who are not technically minded, transferring the group does not mean synchronising in a real-time way as some assumed.

Logically comes from this that I don't think the two forum should have different unique roles, I think practice will decide which will become more popular. We don't want really two camps, but we are hoping that people can be eventually convinced to switch. If it takes years then that, if it dies then that, at least we have learnt a couple of new skills:-)

It's a shame we just hit a hard wall right in the beginning, but thanks for the open-minded supporters.

So, why the BB?
Looking at statistics, there is quite a difference between the number of people who are looking and who are contributing to posts. This is of course true to both forums, on the Yahoo, there are average 30 active people out of the 300 people. Therefore I think we should cater better for readers and browsers, and for this purpose it is better to have a well-organised forum than a string of emails, which is although searchable, if you are just coming to the site browsing, you don't see categories, you don't know where to start. Most people don't even notice that you can organise the posts by topic, although still quite a few to run through...

And if you are a newcomer, on yahoo you don't feel comfy to post replies to 2 years old posts, which is otherwise a unique feature of bulletin boards. Topics in these places stretch over several years, with massive gaps sometimes, but reading and replying to old posts give the comfort that other people had asked the same questions before, and this instantly makes the newcomer part of the bunch.

To achieve this the BB facilitates categories, subforums and the search too, all this in a very visual way. We can also set rules, groups if we want, really BB allows you to create a mini-universe around your chosen topic. Although we don't think it would be good if it broke down to very small specialist groups, that would mean loosing the friendly community.

I don't argue that it makes a bit more effort to contribute here, but this is just one of those things you learn. Many people had to learn to use the yahoo forum just because they were interested in gurdies. The active lot does it anyway, the passive readers can subscribe to RSS.

The other extras on Yahoo (filed, photos, links etc.) we will build into the website as time allows.
People can post some of these here too.

It is more complicated to manage, that's true. I admit, half of the stuff on the admin board is still Chinese for me, so I am taking it little by little and by demand to suss out problems.

I know that change is difficult for many, that's why we kept the forum option open and really just treated this as an experiment. But looking through the history, it was always the few experimentalist against the masses of conservatives who drove technology and the whole humanity forward (ouch, my sense of modesty:-))

As for sharing the admin roles, let's not forget, the whole thing was invented by Scott and he feels a strong ownership of the online forum. To create the BB itself was beyond his computer knowledge (or call it patience), hence I did the setting up. But it's really his decision who he wants or doesn't want to involve. I think by the time the BB gets used better and perhaps there will be a need for a bigger team to moderate, we'll know who we can trust and invite to do this. Thanks for the offers to help.

Hope this is somewhat satisfactory. I am opened to arguments.

Cecilia
Cecilia

"si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses"
"ha hallgattál volna, bölcs maradtál volna"
"if only you had kept quiet you would have remained wise"
User avatar
CeciliaKM
Site Admin
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:51 pm

Re: To start you off bashing...

Postby andycarter » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:46 pm

Thanks for the clarity Cecilia, just what was needed! So, condensed from that post, the rationale for the BB is:-

What can the BB give us that Yahoo can't?
Allows gurdy.co.uk to be a one stop shop for all things gurdy
A better 'read-only' experience
Tighter control of design and operation
Better intuitive navigation for newcomers
Old posts are more visible, allowing topics to be run over years and information to be kept together.

Can the BB replace what the group does now AND improve upon it?
Yes. RSS has been setup to push out updates, and, if really really required, some investigation could be done into whether posting via email is possible.
Yahoo 'extras' can be implemented over time, as the board usage increases. Existing 'extras' could be transferred relatively easily, if appropriate.
Posts from the Yahoo group could be kept where they are. The group could be locked down to read-only, as an archive. However, transferring all the old posts to the new BB is not realistic.

If not, what are the unique roles of the group & the BB going to be?
It doesn't make sense to have two sources of information in the long term.

Who is going to be involved? Who can help?
Scott, as creator, will ask for help as / if required.

Is it worth discussing at the gurdyfest?
Probably not formally, everything is quite under control!

This might help people understand the whys & wherefores, and help get their buy in?
I vote for the BB!

Cheers
Andy
Andy Carter + Blue Hurdy
Pennine West Yorkshire
UK
User avatar
andycarter
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:49 am
Location: Heptonstall, Hebden Bridge, UK

Re: To start you off bashing...

Postby ruthbramley » Sat May 02, 2009 8:13 pm

I'm not going to bash at all. The BB gets a huge thumbs up from me. Thank you Cecilia for all your work. I, for one, really appreciate it.
Forthcoming gigs:
14 Oct - Steve Tilston, Ely Folk Club
18 Nov - James Hickman and Dan Cassidy, Ely Folk Club
5 Dec - ColvinQuarmby, Arkenstall Village Centre, Haddenham, Cambs
9 Dec - Dave Swarbrick, Ely Folk Club
User avatar
ruthbramley
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:22 pm

Re: To start you off bashing...

Postby WaterPig Master » Sun May 24, 2009 4:50 pm

Hi there

As a web designer myself, I much prefer the BB... to be fair, I haven't seen the yahoo option, but from what I've heard, it gives you limited control and minimal integration with existing websites. I'm fully behind the phpBB, it's put together by a brilliant team, and is hugely customisable. Kudos to scott for setting it up, especially if he's not a geek (unlike me). It's taking me a while to sort out mine!

Thanks,
Barnaby
Most buskers aren't tramps... Most!
User avatar
WaterPig Master
 
Posts: 138
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 7:33 pm

Re: To start you off bashing...

Postby Scott Marshall » Sun May 24, 2009 5:00 pm

Barnaby...I didn't set up the HGBB Cecilia did! I just chose the colour :ugeek:
User avatar
Scott Marshall
 
Posts: 342
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:35 pm


Return to Bulletin Board Bashing

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests