Trompette technique, advice pleazzzzzzzzzzzze

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Trompette technique, advice pleazzzzzzzzzzzze

Postby Lizards » Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:37 am

I'll be grateful for advice on how to control longer trompette buzzes, where I am uncertain how far to go, and where to stop. ....Sounds as if I'm in need of agony aunt advice here ;)

In order to achieve the prolonged buzz, I think you call it the coup de bras, the wheel has to go faster for longer, which necessarily means arriving in a different place from where you'd be with no buzz.
So if, for a simple example, I want to play in 4/4 the rhythm 1 2 3zzzzz 1 2 3zzzzzz so that the long buzz starts at 3, goes through 4, and ends just before the 1 comes again, I can see different possibilities:
a) Have the ideal tirante setting so that magically I can achieve staccato buzzes but also the longer buzz without arriving in a different place - Hmmm, not sure how the physics of this work;
b) slightly compress the positions of 2 & 3 so I've got a bit more space for the longer buzz and still arrive at 1 in the right position;
c) make the buzz take the wheel further than usual, therefore re-positioning 1 next time. Which seems counter-intuitive

All this without changing the speed of the music.
And when I want a longer buzz still, the problem is of course magnified.

I don't possess any DVD tutorials... perhaps there's my answer... but have looked closely at various Youtube presentations, including the pretty thorough tutorial Neil recommends on his website.
Players seem to vary a lot. Some seem to achieve the magic (a) option of not ending up in strange positions, others take the (c) option to extremes and produce great sudden accelerations and decelerations of the wheel. And I find it almost impossible when viewing at speed to analyse just what's going on.
The online tutorial I mentioned does explain how it's important to be able to start and stop just as you need, but when he incorporates various techniques into a piece of music, he suddenly speeds his tempo up at the point where he starts using longer buzzes.

If you've read this far, and worked out what I'm trying to say, thanks for your patience. If you can offer useful advice, thanks even more :)
Best wishes,
Richard.
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Re: Trompette technique, advice pleazzzzzzzzzzzze

Postby Scott Marshall » Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:36 pm

Hold on to the knob when you turn the handle for longer buzzes, HTH :D
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Re: Trompette technique, advice pleazzzzzzzzzzzze

Postby Lizards » Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:25 pm

That's certainly something I've only recently learned - thanks, Scott, it's a useful reminder.
I'll still greatly appreciate anyone's comments on how far to spin, please! (See my original posting.)
Best wishes,
Richard.
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Re: Trompette technique, advice pleazzzzzzzzzzzze

Postby Scott Marshall » Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:31 pm

Hi Richard, sorry I didn't read you post properly!
I find when I am playing if I want to add in long buzzes I just hang onto the handle and turn, I just let go of the handle when I want it to stop. I don't think there are any rules, just follow your ears. :) I tend to go from position 1 (top) through to position 1 again and then go back to what ever short buzzes I was playing before. Or maybe from position3 (bottom)to pos 1 for a half buzz. It depends on the tune. How is your coup de quatre (4 buzz) ? I think if you practice that and experiment with adding in longer buzzes. Hopefully someone more technical will come along and help! Paul?

I think Neil's DVD's represent good value, I am still watching the g/c one. There is a good Clastrier one too which I have seen, fascinating to watch, and inspirational but in quite hard to understand French :)
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Re: Trompette technique, advice pleazzzzzzzzzzzze

Postby Lizards » Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:37 pm

Thanks Scott.
I thought my coup de quatre was fine until I watched the Youtube vid. Neil recommends from his site, and there learned of hand positions which might make it easier getting more definition into the sounds. So I'm trying to re-learn my positions relative to the whole circle.
Shucks.
(Though as I said, the player there does speed up when he comes to using longer buzzes.)

But to come back to my original query, I too had been relying on my ear and sort of vague instinct to know how long to do longer buzzes, but it's not properly controlled, and leads to subsequent beats coming in all sort of strange positions round the circle, leaving me with the problem of how to get back to 1 being where 1 should be!
If this makes sense, and doesn't just muddy the water further :)
Best wishes,
Richard.
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Re: Trompette technique, advice pleazzzzzzzzzzzze

Postby Scott Marshall » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:56 am

Hi Richard, I had a practice yesterday and tried to figure out what I was doing on changing from short to long buzzes and back. I think if you concentrate on long buzzes and get control of where they start and stop by holding the handle and releasing.
You should be able to start and stop them anywhere on the rotation. You should be able to integrate this into your short buzz playing seamlessly. Its as simple as holding on and letting go at the right time.

I found the long buzzes a mystery until Steve Tyler showed me to just hold on. Make sure you set your trompette correctly: turn the wheel at the speed you want to play, turn the trompette peg until you get a constant buzz then back it of a little until you get none. I know your instrument has a fantastic trompette :D

If I can get the video on my camera to work and figure out Youtube I will post a link of me playing...although in the past I have had audio/visual time lag/sync problems with it.
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Re: Trompette technique, advice pleazzzzzzzzzzzze

Postby Scott Marshall » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:09 pm

PS These are really good lessons on Youtube from Scott in the USA: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPWVnkZADwE

His Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/fahnreich

Long Buzz: http://www.youtube.com/user/fahnreich#p ... -SJCcMSpyo
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Re: Trompette technique, advice pleazzzzzzzzzzzze

Postby paulsherwood6 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:33 pm

Hi Richard,

I can't add too much to the discussion that hasn't been said. As Scott says, the key is to hold the knob and drive it smoothly for the duration of the "fat buzz" (Coup gras).

With respect to the original list of options
>>a) Have the ideal tirante setting so that magically I can achieve staccato buzzes but also the longer buzz without arriving in a different place - Hmmm, not sure how the physics of this work;
>>b) slightly compress the positions of 2 & 3 so I've got a bit more space for the longer buzz and still arrive at 1 in the right position;
>>c) make the buzz take the wheel further than usual, therefore re-positioning 1 next time. Which seems counter-intuitive

Both b) and c) would be very difficult as they would disrupt the regular coup-de-4 positions and timing and I would suggest you work towards the "magic" one, a) although the physics do seem counterintuitive.

I'd suggest the factors to consider are
1) If the tirant is set correctly, you shouldn't have to speed the wheel up very much to get a continuous buzz, minimising the extent to which you are would overshoot at the end of the turn;
2) You can compensate a bit by slowing the wheel momentarily just before playing the #1 buzz in the next bar, this will cut the long buzz off before you might ideally choose to, but enabling the next bar to start with a good hand position.

I am sure that with practice you will be able to do a good job of the rhythm you gave as an example.
If you want to play a very long buzz (one whole rotation or more) and stay in time you will have to turn the wheel significantly faster (2x or 1.5x speed) so you get back into a good position to keep playing. Patrick Bouffard certainly does some of this, but you wouldn't use it in the example you gave,but perhaps at the end of a phrase, in a kind of flourish.

HTH
Paul
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Re: Trompette technique, advice pleazzzzzzzzzzzze

Postby Lizards » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:57 pm

Thanks both Scott & Paul for these considered replies - I'll have to wait until Weds. before I get a chance to either view the videos or even get the gurdy out if its case, but will report back when I have.
More will follow!

Best wishes,
Richard.
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Re: Trompette technique, advice pleazzzzzzzzzzzze

Postby WaterPig Master » Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:18 pm

I'm just managing to get smooth long buzzes, after lots of practise - I have only had experience with my gurdy, but if you go too fast, do you find that the sound of the buzz 'fractures'?

Thanks,
Barnaby
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